Teach Soap

Alright, Swifty is confusing me a bit with the phases in shampoo making. Sometimes she uses "heated phase" "cool down phase" and sometimes its "phase a" "phase b" and sometimes a "phase c". But none of these are explained anywhere.

I know I must heat the water and keep it at that temperature for 20 minutes; after that I can add the "heated phase" ingredients, then let it cool for the "cooled phase" so that I don't lose my fragrance or kill my preservative. I'm assuming that heated phase and phase A are the same thing, likewise for cool down phase and phase B. Some of the recipes seem to indicate that I may add my surfactants to the heated phase, while others seem to indicate cool down phase; but they use the same surfactants. What I did before was mix the surfactants and other "phase A" components in a bowl, then added the heated water to them. Is this proper? It is how I'd seen it done on youtube and read about in the few articles I managed to find.

"Phase c" seems to be the thickening phase; is this done during cool down/phase B? Or once it is room temperature? Last time I used PEG 150 to thicken, so I didn't have to worry about this!

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~~Heather~~
Mad [soaping] Scientist

I can see how that could be confusing. It really depends on the ingredients. If the formula says heat part A, add to part B, cool, then add part C, then that's what you do. Since some ingredients are heat sensitive, they might be added to part A after it cools off. Heated phase is not always phase A; sometimes it's phase B. Take a look at you ingredients and see if any of them are temp sensitive. Some, like preservative are added very last, which could be your phase D.

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

Alright, that's what I did today. This shampoo was MUCH more what I expected when I was making it, the recipe said it would be thin, last time it was kind of gooey. This time it was down right watery! Crothix was much nicer to thicken with than PEG 150!

Thanks Irena!!

How was the game?

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~~Heather~~
Mad [soaping] Scientist

You're welcome.
The baseball game was fun! We had great seats that were in the shade so no one got sunburned. I had my grandson with me and he loved it!

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

Gah! I just checked the shampoo. It was PERFECTLY thick, now it has separated and become watery again. What could have caused that?

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~~Heather~~
Mad [soaping] Scientist

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

I used liquid germal plus, its what Swifty uses. The only thing I used that she doesn't mention is the plantapon. Maybe it doesn't play well with something I used. Is it still alright to use? If the hubby shakes it before he uses it?

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~~Heather~~
Mad [soaping] Scientist

Plantapon has a high % of sodium aka salt. This creates a high salt curve which can break the emulsion. The INCI of Plantapon is: Sodium Cocoamphoacetate, Glycerin, Lauryl Glucoside, Sodium Cocoyl Glutamate and Sodium Lauryl Glucose Carboxylate. I would try another surfactant. Sounds like it's still usable, you will have to shake it before each use.

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

Have to see what else I have, I think polyglucose (non-ionic) and sulfosuccinate (anionic). What catches me is when to use anionic vs non-ionic vs amphoteric. I use coco. betain. in all of the recipes, as it is so mild and Swifty recommends it in all her recipes.

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~~Heather~~
Mad [soaping] Scientist

I think soapbuddy is right. "Heat up" and "Cool Down" phase shouldn't be confused with the different ingredient groups.
So, you could have group A, which contains the components that will be mixed then brought to 70C and held there; then you'll have group B, which contains the ingredients that won't tolerate 70C - such as some preservatives, many bioactives, etc. and needs to be added during cool down, below 50C typically.

I'd forgotten that Plantapon was itself a mixture! And I have some here.

If the shampoo separated, you have an incompatible ingredient in the formulation. First, did you add any kind of cationic, such as a quat? Those are incompatible with anionic shampoo ingredients and should be in the conditioner only. Secondly, do you have any lipids in there such as vitamin E or oils? If so they need to be fully emulsified with a high-shear blender or you will get separation. And even then . . .

It sounds like you're making a cream shampoo? If so, I have to say, I have not managed to make one yet that does not tend to separate over time. Mine are a lot better now, but still tend to go 'grainy' if left for a couple of weeks. The clear shampoos are easier (with the exception of getting the right fragrance that remains clear)

It is not a cream shampoo. It is a daily use 2 in 1. The same as the other thread hehe. I listed the rest of the ingredients in the other thread. It is based on a recipe by swiftcraftymonkey (Swifty).

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~~Heather~~
Mad [soaping] Scientist