Teach Soap

I've been using Soap Making Resource's "cruelty-free" Tussah silk fibers in my lye solution for a couple of months now, and it's true that the difference is very noticeable in soaps. I'm not really all that concerned about classifying my soaps as vegan, but still want to ask: can I not call soap made with silk fibers vegan? I am assuming the answer is no, just want to make sure. I know Steve, the owner of Soap Making Resource, claims to be a strict vegetarian (which is different from vegan of course), and he uses the silk fibers in all of his tutorials.

Opinions?

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Laura<3

Well, I'm not exactly sure what cruelty free means when it comes to silk. I thought the whole cocoon had to be dipped in boiling water with the silk worm adolescent inside. Maybe they wait for them to hatch and then unwind the cocoon? The point is, silk worms have been bread in captivity for so many thousands of years that you need to practically place the male on the female and then just pray they still mate. They make pandas look like sex fiends. So even if they let the silk moths reach maturity they won't exactly continue to lead a productive life since silk moths have become flightless through inbreeding as well. Cruelty free therefor to my mind means letting the silk moth starve to death without mating as opposed to being executed in it's sleep while waiting to pupate.

Okay, just did some research on what cruelty free silk means and yeah, it means letting them hatch but then having them die of starvation.

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Just call me "Apo"

I didn't really understand what you meant so I googled it too. So, correct me if I am wrong, the silkworms will die anyway, regardless if they are allowed to hatch or not because of the severe effects of inbreeding (blind, don't fly, etc) they will starve. And supposedly silk harvested after hatching is lower quality. Also worth nothing that it is apparently a huge slum shop industry. "Silk that is not made in Europe or not specified as Fair Trade may involve sweatshop labor."

So is it cruel still to allow them to hatch for mating purposes to prevent total extinction? I guess the lines are blurry on this one. (It seems like if you could force them to mate you could force them to eat... /shrug)

And back to my question, vegan or no? One article I read was written by a vegan claiming that now they could finally wear silk but it's stupid expensive etc. Is this just a vegan that didn't do their research or general consensus?

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Laura<3

I would say it's not vegan because it's not a plant material. Same as honey isn't vegan because it's made by bees.

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Linda
I know the voices in my head aren't real, but they sure have some great ideas!

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Vegans have such weird rules. Not like the bees are injured from harvesting honey right?

Ah well. I'm not worried about it so much I guess. I do make some lard soap after all.

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Laura<3

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

Rather than starting a new thread, I just wanted to add onto this one.

I bought some of the silk and tried it in a few 1lb batches. I don't know if I am doing it right, using too much, how long should it take to dissolve, should the water go clear, do I need to strain the water into the oils? Any tips would be very helpful.

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**ERIN**

**I've taken up photography because it's the only hobby I can shoot people and cut their heads off without going to jail**

What's the purpose of using it, since soap is a rinse-off product? Just curious.

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.