Teach Soap

I'm still choosing which preservative I'd like to use in my lotions. Right now I have Phenonip & Optiphen. Used Phenonip tonight. I looked at the "sticky" regarding the preservatives and am interested in Liquid Germall Plus.
What are the drawbacks/negatives to using this one?

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Carrie
Wife to my Best Friend and Homeschool mom to 7 beautiful gifts

It really depends on your total formula. I can't use Optiphen as it makes my formula curdle.

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

What are your thoughts regarding the Liquid Germall Plus?

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Carrie
Wife to my Best Friend and Homeschool mom to 7 beautiful gifts

you should disclose more about your formula. Are you applying electrolytes or Urea? Are you applying cellulose derivatives? etc. there is no rule of thumb. It depends mainly on your other ingredients.

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Genius is 1 % inspiration and 99 % perspiration

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

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Carrie
Wife to my Best Friend and Homeschool mom to 7 beautiful gifts

I've been using Phenonip and haven't a problem with any of the lotion formulas I've tried. I want to try a paraben free preservative, but haven't decided which one yet. If I switch, I'll have to redo my testing.

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Linda
I know the voices in my head aren't real, but they sure have some great ideas!

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Carrie
Wife to my Best Friend and Homeschool mom to 7 beautiful gifts

I was just wondering... where are you ordering the preservatives from? I have searched the BB site and cannot find... am I just blind? I really want to get my order in but need to figure this out first. I was going to call them and ask but maybe the sweet fellow soapmakers here have the answer????

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Susie
Sometimes A Mistake is so much fun, You just have to do it again!

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Genny

let me refresh your chemistry a little bit:

Phenonip is a mixture of parabens and phenoxy ethanol. Application conc. (according to manufacturer) 0,25-1,0 %
you can have no natural claim on your product and you have parabens (poor parabens, they are so notorious for nothing)
Phenonip is a broad range preservative and is compatible with almost every kind of ingredients

Germal II is Diazolidinyl Urea , application conc. (according to manufacturer) 0,1-0,3%
so you have to apply it in lower concentrations in comparison to Phenonip and it is a broad range preservative
BUT
you have still no NATURAL claim
Diazolidinyl Urea is sensitive to heat and pH higher than 9 (which you will not have in any skin care emulsion)
the most important drawback of Germal II is that:
Diazolidinyl Urea is a Formaldehyde releaser and a sensitizer, there are several reports about allergic reactions according to Diazolidinyl Urea in scientific publications.
Formaldehyde releasers are not compatible to proteins, it means you can not apply it in any formulation with Collagen, soy protein, silk protein etc.

I would not exchange phenonip against Germal II

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Genius is 1 % inspiration and 99 % perspiration

I was inquiring about liquid germall plus......that's not the same as geramall II, is it?
I am not looking for any preservative that is considered "natural", as I am not going to claim that my product is all natural.

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Carrie
Wife to my Best Friend and Homeschool mom to 7 beautiful gifts

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

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Carrie
Wife to my Best Friend and Homeschool mom to 7 beautiful gifts

I'm extremely sorry. I don't know why I mixed Germal II and Germal Plus. I simply should not write anything after 22:00 O'clock
Anyway, as Irena has collected in the thread(so wonderful and complete ): Germal plus is a mixture of :

99% Diazolidinyl Urea and 1% 3-lodo-2-propynylbutylcarbamate

Diazolidinyl Urea is a formaldehyde donor

and formaldehyde donors are very active preservatives and relatively milder than formaldehyde itself, but they still cause sensitization:







These are only a few examples.
Now we come to the compatibility with Proteins.
In most of the product data sheets (unless they are provided by an honest manufacturer) it is mentioned that Diazolidinyl Urea (in our case Germal Plus) is compatible to almost all cosmetics ingredients
If you search more and are lucky to have success to original papers you'll see:

it's not inactivated by non-ionic emulsifiers and proteins
which is completely true, the efficiency of diazolidinyl urea is not reduced by proteins and nonionics. However, it doesn't mean that proteins feel good besides diazolidinyl Urea (generally formaldehyde donors). Protein is degraded by formaldehyde and formaldehyde donors. It causes a change of color, phase separation, change of odor of the product. It may not happen immediately but within a couple of weeks depending on the conc. of individual components.

well, I'm not going to charge Germal plus. I can only relate my own story: according to my own carelessness, we had to destroy 5 tons of hair shampoo because I ordered adding a formaldehyde donor to a shampoo containing collagen. It's a long long time ago but the memory is still stabbing. The shampoo changed color from a beautiful pearly white to a disgusting brown with a horrible stink. I wish nobody to repeat this experience even for 50 gr of a lotion.

here another (not very updated ) link to preservatives:

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Genius is 1 % inspiration and 99 % perspiration