Teach Soap

yummymummy and soapbuddy,
I've never said that I shouldn't have my ingredients all listed and I said I am working on all of that little by little. Yummymummy I understand how you see things being from the EU but in the USA any soap that is sold just as soap does not have to list ingredients and so there are millions of bars of soap sold here each day that don't have the list of ingredients. Our largest companies have no ingredient listings on their soap. With that said this is not the way I intend things to be in my business down the road, soapbuddy you've been making soap for 27 years longer than I have and I'm sure there was a time when you did not have everything so perfect in your business.

The only thing about you two that I had a problem with is that it is not your place to judge other soap makers and bash them publicly I found it very unprofessional especially when I'm not doing anything wrong. There are 1,000's of soap makers out there that do not have all of their ingredients listed here in the USA. It doesn't mean that they aren't proud of their soap, it doesn't mean they are trying to hide anything and it doesn't mean they put money before health. You only have to list all ingredients on soap when you start making claims that it cures something or helps with skin problems and I don't make any of those claims. I sell my soap as soap and that's it.

I have an amazing rapport with my customers, just read my feedback. For someone having a reaction, most people with any sensitivities always talk to me and ask. As with anything even if the ingredients were listed people could still have a reaction to something. I have a disclaimer that tells people to try it in a small section of skin prior to all over bathing. Both of your ingredient lists say fragrance on some of your soaps...now there is no way for anyone to know if they will have a reaction to a particular fragrance or not until they try it. Yummymummy I read through some of your ingredients too and you say parfum and also you have a lot of ingredients in your soap that are known irritants. Anyone could have a reaction to either one of your soaps. I agree it is best to list everything and I will, but I don't agree that either of you have the right to judge some one else and what they are doing if they are following all of the guidelines that are proper for what they do.

Let's not forget you were bashing everything, not just the ingredients...you even bashed my policies which is completely up to me to make. I really have no idea why two grown women would act they way you two have, but Soap STAR has much more class than both of you put together as she realized how improper it was and corrected the rudeness with a proper apology. Both of you owe me an apology too, but I won't hold my breath. You were both way out of line in what you were doing here.

I feel sorry for you JustSoapy. I hope you have good liability insurance.

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

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Sarah x

No this thread says a lot more about you two than you realize. I think anyone who reads it will feel more sorry for the both of you than me. You certainly did not help poor Soap Star at all and I'm sure she regrets ever asking now.

Wow so many opinions for only 4 posts.

I understand from all the reading I do that listing your ingredients is a must for a professional soaper, NO matter what type of soap one offers. That is just my understanding.

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~bytheSEAsoap~ Mella bythesea, bythesea, bythebeautiful sea

海の皂

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

Just one comment... as a grandmother of a little girl who only needs to come near some nuts to have a reaction I would be very concerned. And before I started making soap I had no idea what it all contained. Now since we know she is allergic all fine print is read on every label! I have only been making soap for 6 months but put full ingred. labels on all of my soaps... even the ones waiting at home for my own use. This is what this tread is about.... teaching correct labeling procedure... just soapy - you just gave one example, sorry it had to be you. And yes I love your work... but could not buy because of not knowing.

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Susie
Sometimes A Mistake is so much fun, You just have to do it again!

Did I once in any of this say I don't put information of ingredients when shipping my soaps out? I said it's hard to print things and keep up with things and that my ingredients change quite a bit. These women made assumptions on everything about me and my soap without ever even talking to me or knowing anything about me, my soap or my business. Also when some one asks me I always tell them what is in anything and that is what people do when they have any specific reactions to ingredients as not everything you read online or on labels is always correct or up to date. If I had an allergic reaction to anything specific I would always ask. I know a lot of people have reactions to nuts, I don't use nut oils in any of my soaps. This thread actually isn't just about correct labeling it's also about the internet age and not all of us have been able to keep up with it all. All I ever said was I am trying to get all of that up on Etsy and work on it...I've never once denied that I need to do it and that some of it is correct and some of it I am still working on. When I put my stuff on Etsy I had no idea it was going to be such a success so quickly and yes it taught me a lesson as it just kept selling so quick that I never had time to go through each and every listing as it was happening. There are 1000's of soapers dealing with the same thing and there are newbies learning and testing out the ropes. At the same time I have been featured in so many magazines, papers, websites, etc. so it just blew up on me in my face. I work hard at it everyday and I am pretty proud of it all. I'm not upset at any thing said on here, I'm upset that people made assumptions and judgment without any real knowledge. I would never assume anything about any one else's product or business especially online. I found it to be extremely unprofessional and in poor taste.

I've been on Etsy about a year and a half and have had almost 1,700 sales in that time and that is just Etsy...I noticed one of the ladies making all the assumptions has been on Etsy for 4 and a half years and has had only 29 sales ....I just think that neither of you ladies realized or took in to consideration everything and you were real quick to point fingers at other people, but when I look at your sites and what you do I can pick out many things that would be wrong with what you do too. We are all easy targets here on the internet for criticism. I would think fellow soapers would be more supportive and make kind suggestions and understand everything involved. What I found here was really ugly and unappealing....and everything but supportive. Which by the way is why so many people came to me and told me about this, all the other soapers that know me respect me tremendously, otherwise I would have probably never heard about this as I don't have time for forums. All I wanted was an apology from the two ladies that were so unprofessional and tactless. Remember you didn't just talk about my ingredients, you got all nit picky and were judging my policies and other things too. Next time you should talk to the person before talking behind their back. Like I said in my opening statement it's not nice in real life and people usually hear about it....it's the same on the internet.

Thanks everyone for your time, suggestions, etc. For those of you that sent me private supportive messages praising me on my professionalism I truly appreciate it. I also appreciate all of your compliments on my work.

Good night!

I can see where it might be stressful to keep up with a successful shop, especially while opening another shop for the new loaves site.

It would take a great deal of time to do the computer work up's for the hundreds of current soaps and to label web sites like etsy and artfire studios and also crank out labels for new soaps going out the door. So the girl scout motto be prepared is probably a good one to keep in mind for us hobbyists!

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~bytheSEAsoap~ Mella bythesea, bythesea, bythebeautiful sea

海の皂

For some of us etsy is not our main venue of income. I still believe that if you sell anything online, whether as an auction or as a web site, you should list all ingredients. It's a common courtesy. You are loosing customers by not listing them. A lot of people will not buy on picture alone. If you are so busy that you cannot do this, I would suggest that you scale down your business until you are able to do so. I have nothing to apologize for.

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

Well Mella, I never said it was stressful and if you look at my loaf shop it has all of the ingredients listed. What I said was that I haven't had a chance to go back through all of my old listings on my main Etsy site and fix all 240 of them. A lot of them are fixed, just not all. That is because I kept relisting the soaps from the first listings I made to keep the shop full. The soap loaf shop is by customer demand...I've actually had more customers ask me to make soap loaves than I have had ask me to list my ingredients. In the year and a half I've had the Etsy shop open I've had about 5 or 6 customers ask me for ingredients.

Soapbuddy, I agree that I should list all ingredients and it is common courtesy...again you are missing the point that I've said I've been working on it. I didn't realize these things when I started selling online. I haven't been making soap for 41 yrs. like you and I'm sure when I have I will have things fine tuned. The reason I talked about Etsy is because that is what you guys have chose to criticize. It's not my main income either and that is why it is also not fine tuned....I've got a lot of online venues and I also sell in stores and markets too. It's a shame you feel you don't have anything to apologize for.

You guys have an awful big job out there if you want to go around and talk about every single soaper that doesn't have all of their ingredients on every single listing out there. Again that is because it is not required in the USA so not all soapers realize they should. When I made my first listings I just put glycerin as the ingredient and didn't realize that I need to write what is in the glycerin. When I've made the CP, HP and RTP I've always put all of the ingredients. You guys are just picking on the soaps that have added glycerin. I still think you did things in a very unprofessional and tactless manner. I wish every one here all the best, I never felt I was asking for too much in asking for an apology, but I guess it isn't in the cards.

You know we are trying to learn how to do this professionally and avoid the pit falls, tp be true to our products, to be true to our customers and to our craft and or profession. Sorting out the dos and dont's is important I think people will agree.

We are learning here and I think it is invigorating and challenging. TU and good night gracie!

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~bytheSEAsoap~ Mella bythesea, bythesea, bythebeautiful sea

海の皂

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Sarah x

Mella and Yummymummy,
I completely agree with what both of you say here. I was never trying to interfere with anyone learning or growing. I was only trying to express how unprofessional everyone was being on here. Being professional is a big part of business too, the only reason I ended up on this forum is because after 3 or 4 days of a bunch of soap makers coming to me saying "hey these ladies are really way out of line on this forum" So I came to respond to what everyone considered to be a very unprofessional way of teaching some one.

Anyway you are right yummymummy I don't have the time for this either and yes I shouldn't have ever even been here to begin with. This is my first time ever on any forum. My skin is damn thick after all the years I've been doing this....not once was I bothered by what you said I was only bothered by your extreme unprofessional way of handling things. Many times yesterday I wanted to say I won't be back to this forum and yes I know that the only reason that I was on here is because people liked my work and were trying to figure things out. So now with all said I've got a hell of a lot of soap to make today because I wasted all day yesterday on this hahahaha. Enjoy your time with your son and hubby today. No hard feelings, I hope everyone learned something from this.

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~bytheSEAsoap~ Mella bythesea, bythesea, bythebeautiful sea

海の皂