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Teach Soap • View topic - Saponification

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 Post subject: Re: Saponification
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:13 pm
Posts: 1955
Location: Melbourne, Australia
:lol:

We've established the difference between MP and CP. And the thread is actually about a market stall lady not knowing what lye is used for. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Saponification
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:30 pm
Posts: 174
Location: Crossville, TN
Back over the summer, we bought some veggies from an online farmer's market here in my town. Two of the vendors were selling handmade soap so I bought a bar from each of them.

The first bar had really bad ash on it. Like, so thick I had to chisel off on one corner to make sure it was actually soap. However, it was otherwise fine. I didn't see the seller at their tent so I didn't get a chance to talk to her.

The second vendor.. oh boy. She's a real gem. Her cedarwood & bergamot soap was listed as her "recent coconut oil soap", so I was curious if it was all coconut oil and if so, what her superfat was and how long it had cured (like a salt bar's superfat & cure time). So I WANTED to talk to this lady. She was at her booth, and she sells a salve that she calls (I kid you not) "Heals All". That alone has made me cringe. But the bar of soap in my order (which my hubby went over to the head of the market to pick up) looks okay. She was selling her moisturizer and salve last year but no soap last year. Which, btw, the moisturizer has no preservative in it. My mother bought one of them just to see, and nope, just GSE and Vit. E. I made her toss it out because who knows how long ago the lady had made it, just waiting for someone to buy it. Granted, it could have been made the day before it was picked up, but I am not taking any chances.

So the ladies in front of me move on, and I start talking to her. I see a small basket of unwrapped soaps (fine with me) on her table. What does start to bother me is they're all in one small basket. All identical in color. And I pick one up and she says "That's peppermint and the other is the cedarwood & bergamot you ordered" - without even seeing which one I picked up. Okay, maybe she tried to keep them on one side or the other for each scent but that's not even the best part.

The peppermint batch had obviously overheated. Yep, she was selling her bars that had all that wonderful sponge on it. I felt it and it was just so squishy I actually got cold chills in the 80+ degree heat.

So I put it back and she's making small talk about how she's got another batch of peppermint that has another two or three weeks cure time left to it (thank god she knows to cure it) and I tell her that I make soap as well. She asks if I sell and I let her know that I will most likely be selling next year. She thinks that's great, that just her and the other vendor sell soap so there's no competition! No competition my a**, lady. That's 2 people selling out of anywhere from 8 to 15 vendors. And its only a 2-3 hours one day a week for in-person sales, I don't think they have a bunch of advertisement out about the online storefront.

But seeing my husband coming with our order, I ask her if the soap I ordered was 100% coconut oil. Yep, it was (again, no labels on the soap or even a board listing the ingredients). Then here comes the whammy.

I ask her what her superfat or lye discount was on the soap, so I can determine if I need to let it cure a lil longer or if it was usable at all for us here at my house (or if I should gift it) because more than 30% is drying to us.

She looked at me blankly and said "I don't know what that is."

I nearly started to cry. But I held it together as she kept talking at me while I'm just trying to keep my s**t together. She makes it in 5 pound batches and uses a 13 ounce can of lye. Anyone else find that batch size & lye can familiar? I do, Miller Soap. I have nothing against Miller Soap, its a GREAT reference - I just remember that most of her batches on there are for 5lb batches and she has on there that the batch size was determined by the 13 oz can so be aware that they switched to 16oz cans. Which the 13oz aren't even available anymore (at least definitely not in our town), so I knew my top was gonna blow if I didn't get out of there.

Anyways, I did zap test them. The ashy one was fine once I got past the ash. The second one burned me when I zap tested it myself. I eventually did email the market leader but never heard back.


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 Post subject: Re: Saponification
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:07 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:52 pm
Posts: 418
Be afraid. Be very afraid. That's all I could think while I was reading your post. I suspect she used 16oz. lye instead of the 13oz. she might have thought she was using. No matter what, I doubt she used a lye calculator. Thank goodness you know to test the soap. What about the unsuspecting people who bought it and then used it? Or used it on their children? Your story sends shivers up my spine.


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 Post subject: Re: Saponification
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:22 am
Posts: 1515
Location: Northern Nevada
Wow, that is awful! It completely amazes me how little she bothered to learn about her craft before she began selling. Labeling aside, she can't have tested her soap or she'd have known it was lye heavy. Wonder if she knows what that is? *shudders*

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 Post subject: Re: Saponification
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:39 am
Posts: 731
Location: New York
That is awful! And I, too, am surprised she doesn't use her own soap. I always use some from every batch, just as a double-triple check.

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 Post subject: Re: Saponification
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:12 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:14 am
Posts: 6158
Location: Jefferson City, TN

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 Post subject: Re: Saponification
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:41 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:50 am
Posts: 88
VanessaP, that is sooo the reason why I want to actually work up to selling one day. I've met a few local soapers and I've yet to be actually impressed by anyone of them. One broke my skin out, one had DOS, a few were M&P and couldn't answer basic questions. NONE have been pretty/artsy at all.

....I bet that lady didn't even have insurance.


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 Post subject: Re: Saponification
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:01 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:14 pm
Posts: 782
The problem is that one person like that can ruin the market for CP soap.


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 Post subject: Re: Saponification
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:22 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:55 pm
Posts: 504
Location: Lakewood, WA


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 Post subject: Re: Saponification
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:22 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:14 am
Posts: 6158
Location: Jefferson City, TN

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