Teach Soap

This issue came up on another forum I'm on - it isn't blatant but there is a prevading attitude that MP soaps are not as good as CP/HP soaps. There were posts back and forth last night about it and, to be honest, it rather annoyed/upset me. I have put a lot of money, time and effort into my soaps and I try my very best with them - however, if there really is an attitude that M&P is just something that easy and takes little talent, then what does that say about the future of the business I am trying to start?

I was wondering if you had come across this attitude yourselves and your opinions on it? To be fair, this board seems the least judgemental of any I've been on and there is a real respect for M&Pers on here which is great. For those who are in the business of designing/creating/making/selling M&P soaps, have you found this attitude has affected your sales at all? Or is it only an attitude that the makers of soaps have?

In these recessionary times, I'm wondering if I'm utterly mad to try and start a business, putting in our family's cash into it... posts such as the ones I came across last night that underminded the type of soaps I make (whilst trying to come across as being supportive) adds to my fears. I wonder if I'm just being sensitive about it all.

Sorry if this sounds terribly rambling.

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i would like to say something because this issue came up this summer t ome.. in person... i was talking with some farmers at a farmers market i was selling at (mind you the one farmer i had known for a few years now) and the new farmer i mentioned to her, because she had a goat farm, hey if you ever have any extra milk i would love to buy some off you to tr in my soap, mind yu i make both melt and pour and cold process.. i did the melt and pour with my 4 year old because she liked to helped and i didnt want lye near her.. i was actually told by the other famrer that i had known she butts in and goes uh she makes the real soap. i was so mad at this and i shot back well what is real soap to you then? you seem to always want to trade with me, yetmy stuff isnt real? then i held up about 15 bars i had out that were cold process. she came by later about 3 weks from them and told me she was sorry for her comment she just thought because i was doing melt and pour on certain soaps which she thought it was all i do, that because she buys craft kits and mold at the local craft store that it was not an art. so my point is this, only you can make your business thrive or fail, and only you can show people the neat things behind melt and pour. one of the things that helped me was i make the cute bars with artwork and stuff, but i also make simple bars just like cold process looks, so people dont feel guily using them and ruining the artwork, and both sold.. that will help you get repeat buyers.. just push you name and that u use quality products. i hope this helps sorry for the long reply LOL

Danielle

Honey-
First off, please put *any and al doubts* you have about this path you have started as a *crafter/artisan* of m/p soap in the shredder. It's an obstacle course out there and you've just run up against a little obstacle but you have a well-planned course so just move over, under or around this. If it bothers you I'm the last one to say don't let it bother you (other things bother me) - because they *are real* feelings you have. How much time you want to spend on pondering this is the question? I say give it 10 more minutes if you need to and then get back on path!!

Second - stay focused on what brings you joy and use those energies to focus on the wonderful products you bring into peoples lives. People will always have an opinion and I actually don't pay any attention to thoughts/attitudes around cp or mp - they are both great. Those that feel differently maybe are not the crowd to hang with. We all gravitate to the process that suits our personalities and there may be other safety or even space reasons why a certain style of soap crafting fits each persons lifestlye better.

Third - The internet is actually a challenging place to get into a ' opinion/discussion' when there clearly are diverging opinions. You can't see the peoples faces, or facial reactions, hear their voices or even know if there are any language barriers as well. It's easy to get 'incensesd' and yet realize that your time is valuable and you want to spend it on what *you are doing* not what others perceive to be better.

Fouth - As for sales - I'm early on with this so all I know is that I'm getting sales - one by one. Some on-line but not as much because there is a whole strategy to drive people to my site that I'm working on. At fairs people will see and smell my soap and if they are attracted to them - and buy - I'm happy - My neighbors love my soaps and love coming over to buy as gifts. And remember I recently got that order for 35 'thank you' soaps. It's perhaps only important to (if someone asks) what the difference might be in the two processes. You just have to have an "authentic voice" as to why you enjoy doing m/p and stay focused on that!!

So, girlfriend - you GO! (and don't look back)
Hilary

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http://www.asliceofdelight.etsy.com

I love you girls, so much, thank you for your responses. You are so right, I'm on this road for a reason and I need not to forget that in the face of criticism. And that criticism could stem from anything at all, and usually from reasons which have nothing to do with me in the first place.

You are really great people - thank you again!!! You know I'll probably be back in a few months bemoaning things, so you can point me in the direction of this thread again then???

Loving your work ladies, loving your work

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I make both; so do whatever floats your boat.

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

Very pithy but damn good answer! Thank you!

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Honey, just two tips:

1. Focus and Focus on what you really like and want to achieve.
2. MP soaps do have many advantages, and none of it easy Or do not have to put your imagination to work to mix colors, so imagine your soap? that's art. Honey's proof in these two soaps have you just put on the forum.
Apart from that with this method is a very creative world. I make the two processes, but no doubt I'll go for the MP.
So do not waste time thinking about other things that you really enjoy doing and want to do, go to your goals. Just a tip: "The only thing that grows is done you put in your energy".

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http://aureana.artesanum.com
http://haciendojabon.blogspot.com

Remember that it is your customers you have to please, not other soap makers. We already have more soap than we know what to do with

I too was a bit offended when I heard of this comment about MP. I've never done any other type, and I challenge anyone to say duplicating my soaps is easy. I would like to do another type, but the more I learn about the others, the more I realize that it probably isn't for me. I'm going to stick with what I know I can do and do best, and I do enjoy what I do, as I know you do.

Forums can be very toxic places. Just like the people you meet, you have to weed out the good from the bad, and to be honest, there are very few like the one you are on right now. I don't know how Anna Marie has managed it, but she seems to have gotten the cream of the crop for this site. It is wonderful to get enthusiasm, rather than jealousy; support and information, rather than harsh criticism and down right mean comments; and I think genuine interest in what your fellow soapers are doing.

It's a big world out there, and plenty of room for all of us. We will all get further when we have a place like this to come for advice and support ... which is all I've ever seen here. I'm only sorry that this world is too big for us to all get together in the flesh sometime. I'd bet that we would all be the bests of friends.

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Barbara at Oasis Soap Co.
http://www.oasissoap.com

I guess for me, if you took a block of M&P, melted it then scented it, maybe on a good day but a single color in it, cut it in blocks a la cold process, then sold it at a comparable price as cold process....I'd be pissed. As a fellow soapmaker, I'd be LIVID if you were skirting the issue of "handmade" or "home grown" or "hand processed" by making it appear to be CP. And, I've seen people that have done this. And IMO have tricked customers into believing they've put a lot of work into what really an 8 year old could do.

With that being said, the ARTISTRY you can achieve with M&P is fantastic. It's like painting, except useful. A little piece of art to give to people you love, or to keep for yourself. The colors, the details, the awe....all things that cannot be touched by CP. And IMO if you're using M&P to use it's unique qualities to your advantage to make little wonderful gems? Yes. Do it.

Is it "real soap"? Yes, it's real soap. I remember one time I was in a pinch and needed castor for CP and went to the local store, and bought a few bottles. The guy in line behind me was a wisecracker, and commented on the need for castor with the combination of frozen pizza. So, I told him I made soap. His girlfriend (these were 40-somethings dating, I'm sure of it) snorted and said "OH, like some people "make candles"?" So she thought of M&P as "not soap". She may be thinking of the cheapy kits at Michael's though...who knows? She might still buy wal-mart brand toilet paper. She may have never tried GOOD M&P, or GOOD CP, and doesn't see the value of it.

In life, IMO you should do what makes you happy. You should do what brings you joy. Can you stand proudly behind what you do? Can you speak knowledgeably when asked? Can you do what you do honestly? If it starts to feel less like art, and more like production that's not good. But if you're still madly in love with soap making (whatever the process), then do it with gusto. Half-heartedness will only give you half-hearted soap, kwim?

This old chestnut never seems to go away. I agree with all the posters - don't let it get you down. I guess just "melting and pouring" is just that, but if you are happy, that's just fine. IMO you can get very very technical with MP, as well as working with lye. People just love to have a dig at others work don't they ?

You can take each soap to any heights of creativity you wish to, but we are all different and are happy and comfortable with different things. Some people never make lotions, or lip balm, does that make them any less a crafter?

I just love to make soap, both kinds and LS & cream soap, all kinds of soap

Go for it (but put your helmet on ) and have fun with soap.

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Goldenearthgirl

I started with m&p bars and then worked my way into cp. I still love to do m&p. I like the way I can make it look however I want it to. Whether I want to be creative and artsy or just want a simple bar with some herbs suspended throughout (I use clear for that so I can see them). I have always gotten nothing but good feedback from both cp and m&p. I say, do what you love to do and don't worry about what others say. You can make a very successful business if you put your mind to it. Good luck!

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Haven

Thank you all so much for your posts and your feedback - I appreciate every single one of them.

I can, hand on heart, say I love making soap, I love creating, I love the excitement and thrill of not being 100% sure what its going to turn out like, I love even making the labels (yeah, weird I know)... I even love wrapping them now that I found cello!!! However, I'm a worrier by nature and, in these times, that worry grows. My family sure isn't starving (far from it I'm afraid) and I know we can afford to fund this whilst things grow, as long as we take it step by step. I guess I look too far into the future and imagine scary bogeymen when maybe there are none there?

As to the snobbery, I guess it goes on everywhere to some extent or another (but actually very rarely here). I firmly live by two things in life - 1, manners cost nothing so why not make it easy on yourself and be pleasant rather than put yourself out by being nasty and 2, problems only start when you begin putting labels on people (I'm white, she's black, etc etc)... so take the labels off and what do you get? Just regular people, that's all... So, in relation to this topic, my belief is ... be nice about other people's work, it's their baby, they've put their heart and soul into it so why be nasty? And don't label it as M&P or CP/HP - after all this is soap that you wash it and it goes down the drain... and whatever it is, as long as it's a quality product and you love it, what does it matter?

Thanks girls, you've really helped me see things more clearly and refocus my efforts. I so so so appreciate it.

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Honestly, as far as your business, I would not worry about this one bit, as these disagreements only happen between soapers! Everyone I give or sell soap to does not understand the difference between M&P and CP, even when I explain it. I have friends and customers who only like the M&P no matter how much I try to get them to appreciate the CP!

I look at the two as falling under different categories completely. M&P is art. Sure, just like paint, a 4-year-old could use it, but the end result will be nothing like the work of a master. CP is artisan. It is a trade, a handicraft. It is not just about the art - in fact, my favorite CP to make is color and fragrance free. It is about the old fashioned process of making soap from scratch.

Different strokes for different folks, eh?

I do both, depending on what mood I am in. I find I can be more creative with M&P and I sometimes crave that, but sometimes I just need to dig in and get my hands dirty, so to speak, with the beautiful process of making CP.

The same goes for buyers. Some people love the cool designs only found in M&P and some people love the qualities of CP, some like both.

The internet can be a nasty place - never let it define who you are or what you do!

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Goldenearthgirl

Oh I am one of the biggest control freaks too and believe me, I've shed tears when things don't work out! Even just this Sunday gone and I got my hubby out of bed to help me.. and the soap turned out fab and everyone loves it! Sometimes the mistakes can turn into the successes!!

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