Teach Soap

Hi all!

After having made quite a few batches of bath bombs over the last several months, I have only one problem... the use of polysorbate in them.

I like my bombs to be moisturizing so I put a decent amount of oil in them. I use poly to disperse the oils, which it does wonderfully. But the problem is that the poly, whether I use poly 20 or 80, always makes the bombs foam instead of fizz. Truthfully I don't see that much of a difference between the 20 and the 80, and this happens even if I use a very small amount of poly, even as little as 1-2%. I really like the bombs to FIZZ (and so do my kids!).

Is there a way to disperse your oils while still maintaining the fizz and not a lot of foaming? Every time I use a Lush bomb, they fizz nicely without foaming but are still moisturizing. I'm not sure how to get this balance. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

you can use a different solubizer - try sulfonated castor oil, also called turkey red oil (no actual turkeys are involved, so i don't know why it's called that). you can buy it at the scent works - . that should cut down on the foaming, which is characteristic of polysorbate.

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I would go without the poly and use a fractionated oil like coconut instead.

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

Thanks Soapbuddy and Magic Hands,

I should probably expand a bit more and explain why I started using poly in the first place.

When I first started making bath bombs, I used a bit of water and/or witch hazel as a wetting agent. But my bombs cracked almost every time. I then saw a suggestion to ditch the water/witch hazel and only use oil instead, which I started doing. This pretty much eliminated the cracking problem, but in using that much oil, of course your bath/skin gets greasy. So I started using the poly. I love the way the poly disperses the oil and softens the water, but I hate how it makes you lose the fizz.

Last night I did a small test batch, making just two bombs. I reduced the oil (I use sweet almond) and used witch hazel spritz. They came out of the molds just fine, but when I looked at them this morning, they had huge cracks around the middle where the two halves come together. Grrrr!

I'm not sure of the best way to make these bombs. Any suggestions? Do you use only oil, or do you spritz with witch hazel? I read somewhere that alcohol is a good spritz to use instead of witch hazel since it won't activate the ingredients + it dries/absorbs completely, leaving your bombs dry. Thoughts on this? I live in San Diego (not coastal) so there's very little humidity where I am.

I use oil, water, sulfonated castor, fragrance, and colorant. I don't spritz after the intial mixing, so I don't know how they're affected. I've done it in the past with the same list, only no oil, but I find the version that uses a small amount of water gets harder for me.

I've done both the water and no water versions with sulfonated castor and with polysorbate, and the only difference between the two dispersing agents was that one fizzed and the other one foamed more, just like you're describing. I've used various oils and butters - I personally didn't like the fractionated coconut, because while the oil itself is wonderfully light, the bombs seemed a bit crumbly. My fave oils tend to be things like avocado, sweet almond, hazelnut - and sometimes I add a bit of butter to the liquid oil. I've also tinkered around with things like cyclomethicone, just to play with the afterfeel.

I just mix all the liquids together and move quickly to get it evenly dispersed into the dry ingredients - it often starts to react a bit when I dump it in, but that stops once it's mixed in. If it's too wet and looks like it will continue to react, I add some cornstarch to absorb the excess moisture.

Here's the part you're going to hate. I very very rarely get cracks or warts on my bombs. I don't know why. I know a lot of people battle constantly with bombs, so you're certainly not alone.

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I noticed a vast difference when I incorporated a little bit of water in my recipe and was able to ditch the witch hazel after-spritzing ritual...and I get no "warts" either...

I love the use of oils mostly in my recipe but sometimes I'll switch from using sweet almond oil to another light oil. I use cocoa butter from time to time too...I guess it's all about using different ingredients and see what works well in the end...

I too have a love-hate relationship with bath bombs...sometimes they love, sometimes they don't

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Hmmmm, interesting... thanks for the input.

Maybe I'll try using water again and eliminate the spritz and see how it works.

Magic Hands, as far as the sulfonated castor oil goes, I'm a little confused. Is it an actual OIL like the name says, or is it an emulsifyer like polysorbate? Do you use the stuff as a substitute for poly or do you use it so that you don't need poly at all?

It doesn't foam up at all? It disperses the oils but maintains the fizz? I may have to pick up some of this stuff and give it a try. Is there a certain percentage that you recommend?

Thanks!

Be aware that sulfonated castor oil might have a weird smell.

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

Sulfonated castor oil is castor oil that has been treated to be water-soluble. There are a couple of drawbacks - it's irritating to the skin if used in excess, and like soapbuddy says, it has a wierd smell. actually, she was being quite polite - it smells just awful, lol. and it's bad for people with sulfa allergies.
You generally can't smell it in the finished product, although I certainly wouldn't use it in an unscented product.

All that aside, if I do use it, I use the same amount that I would with polysorbate.

Next up on my list of experiments - and maybe you want to try this first, and if you do, please report back - is to use a little e-wax melted into my liquid oils, instead of either the polysorbate or the sulfonated castor. That should work, but I don't know yet what percentages and I have no idea how it would affect the fizzing/foaming qualities. If I get a chance I'll try it in the next couple of weeks and let you know how it worked.

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Thanks for the heads up about the castor oil smelling bad! That makes me a little less enthusiastic about trying it. I make bath bombs for myself, family and friends only (I don't sell), so I'm not as inspired to make them absolutely perfect.

Magic Hands, I checked out your etsy shop and according to your ingredients, you do use polysorbate. So do your bath bombs foam? Do you find that your customers don't really care about foam vs. fizz? I think the biggest disappointment I've gotten has been from my kids (ages 2 & 4), who have expressed loudly that THESE AREN'T FIZZING! WHY ARE THEY DIFFERENT!? For them, it isn't about the scent or the softening or the relaxation. It's about the COLORFUL VOLCANO erupting in the tub!

Mine do foam, but I don't have kids to yell at me, lol. Some of the ones I make for myself only are with the sulfonated castor.

I'm really interested in trying the e-wax now, to see how that works.

_________________
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http://www.magichands.etsy.com
http://www.magichandsworkshop.blogspot.com

E-wax emulsifies oils/butters. I would think you wouldn't get much fizz from that.

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

Right, but it would disperse the oils in the bathwater, and sub in for either the sulfonated castor or the polysorbate. The fizzing would still come from the baking soda/citric acid reaction.

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http://www.magichands.etsy.com
http://www.magichandsworkshop.blogspot.com

Thank you everyone this is an interesting thread for someone with meddling hands. Has anyone tried the e wax emulsifiers?

What is e wax and how is it used?

I hope it worked for you!

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~bytheSEAsoap~ Mella bythesea, bythesea, bythebeautiful sea

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E-wax is normally used for lotions or creams.

_________________
Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.