Teach Soap

Before you know what happened today, you need some background;
A friend of mine began making soap and asked me many questions, all of which I answered to the best of my knowledge, thinking I was being helpful, but not handing anything to her on a silver platter (which sometimes angered her). She had only made a few batches when she told me that she found a shop that wanted to sell her soap. I clearly stated that she did not have the experience, nor the business items (namely insurance and a business license) necessary to conduct a soaping business and should pass for the time being. Naturally she quit discussing the selling aspect with me, but she sent me her "wonderful" soap so that I could offer my opinion and critique the recipe......one that was gleaned from a book or the net, I don't now recall which (but I did give her a soap calc lesson and we checked it together).
Anyway, I thought the finished bar looked okay, smelled okay, and seemed to lather alright when I washed my hands. All in all, it looked like a descent, albeit early, attempt at soaping. It was one color, simple recipe, a nice beginning, which is what I told her.
Since I make and love my own soap, I gave that particular bar to my Mother to use and then give her opinion to my friend, which made Mom and friend quite happy. When I called to tell her what Mom thought of the soap, she tells me that she has already sent that entire batch over to the shop that she had mentioned, and was now making some more. Yea her??
Of course she thought I was jealous and didn't understand why I couldn't "let her have that one shop"!

Fast forward to today, about 9 months since the friend began selling her soap. I went to my Mom's and low and behold, I saw the soap from that friend on the tub ledge. It was terrible looking. I picked it up and it had NO fragrance. Worse than that, it had "pock" marks all over it. Upon closer examination, I found that these odd marks were old lye pockets (yes I cut into it and found some all the way through it, with dried lye around the edges). Fortunately Mom had left this soap lay on the tray after using it just a few times. I questioned Mom about why she quit using it and she said that she had some irritation, but thought it was "the fragrance or something different in it" [than mine]. Gee, if she was still speaking to me I might ask her if she has been sued yet.......

Not to flog a dead horse or argue with anyone, but here is a perfect example of why I don't think that having 10 successful batches of soap under your belt, even if you are using a "tried and true recipe" qualifies you to sell your products and call yourself a business! My friend had me telling her of the possible consequences to not having insurance and a business license, yet she didn't care (in her words, she had nothing for anyone to get if they did sue her). Do you really think that it would have meant more to her to read that BB recommends she get a license and insurance? Obviously, her having to find out the labeling laws (uhmm, there is already a book out on this) on her own and having to hunt up some recipes on her own (I don't give mine out) didn't delay her selling too terribly much. In fact, had she been able to buy the business in a box deal she could have been selling in a week or less, rather than the month that she took!

Those that want a business will work and study and do what it takes to make a good one. Those that just want money, fast, easy or otherwise, will just do what they need to to begin getting it in. We see it ALL the time. You say "but you need to test your lotion shelf life, so you can't sell it until you know ..." and they say "yes, BUT, I don't have the money for testing, besides I added a preservative" or "yes, but I never add a preservative and it hasn't grown anything, I use it all the time!". Or you say, "you need to have liability insurance" and they say "but that is 300$ and I need to sell soap to make money first!" No amount of reasoning will work with these people and these are the people that will run to get a business in a box!

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Remember, it's not just that we weather the storm, but how we dance in the rain.

Tammy

That's terrible. I can only imagine that store selling that soap to someone that irritates their skin so much that they will never buy handmade soap again. Can you imagine if one of those lye pockets got in their eyes? The store would be sued, the person that made it would be sued and IF she has insurance, it would not cover her, since this is a case of negligence.

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

Woozer, your friend is NOT a business woman, she is just plan stupid!!! You must have all your paperwork in place before you start selling, that's just common sense. If she had bought the Business in a Box kit, she would have done it any differently? Also would she have wanted to pay the $800.00 for the kit? And if she had purchased the kit, read all the material, followed a better recipe would the outcome of the soap be any different?

You can tell people they shouldn't sell their soap unless they have so many batches of soap under their belt and years of experience. But in reality that's not going to stop anyone. Anyone who takes there soap making business seriously and wants to make money are going to do their due diligence or they wont survive.

I respectfully disagree that the Business in the Box is going to make/encourage reckless soap makers. I think its going to save newbie soap makers a ton of money and time getting into the business. And will in fact encourage new business owners to do it the right way from the start.

Well Margo, I am sorry but I disagree about the box deal, so we will just have to disagree.
Her recipe was good, I helped her double check it and used that as a learning opportunity for the lye calc. She took it as me being a pain and was quite upset that I didn't just do it myself and tell her if the recipe was good or not! So in her case, yes the box deal would have given her sound recipes and saved her 10 minutes!
I DO agree with you that she is NOT a business woman. But that is also my point. I meet people like her everyday and at every show I do. I think MOST people just want a short cut and the box thing encourages that, whether that is the intention or not. Again, my opinion and we will just have to agree to disagree.

Irena, yea, pretty sad and crazy hugh? I am so glad that my Mom left that bar sit. If she had kept using it I can imagine what may have happened and I would be probably be in jail for assaulting the "friend".

BTW, an UPDATE; I did try to call her and advise her about the soap. I felt she should know if she didn't already. She was quite angry with me "stirring things up". She let it slip that she hasn't sold there for a while, but "all the people at the craft shows and markets [she has gone to] are very happy with her soap!" When I asked her if she has been back to any to know, or actually given her contact info so she'd know, she hung up on me. So I am guessing that is a no!

_________________
Remember, it's not just that we weather the storm, but how we dance in the rain.

Tammy

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

The fact that this woman is an idiot doesn't have anything to do with a business in a box product.

I have found amazing support in the online soaping community for new soapers, including me, right up until someone declares they're interested in making it a real business. Then the big guns all come out, and bar none so far (pun intended), people get told they aren't ready. That they're incompetent or worse.

I have never seen a person declare that they want to make soaping a real business get a positive reaction online. Never.

I personally believe this response is primarily motivated by commercial soapers' reactions to a new competitor, not out of primary concern for consumers. It's a natural, unconscious, reaction.

How can we know that anyone online is ready to make soaping a business? We can't. Yes, you can recognize an idiot, but no idiot is going to survive in a business that requires huge amounts of work. All small businesses require huge amounts of work.

Those of us that have continued soaping KNOW that creating a consistent, high-quality, product is a very difficult endeavor. It takes time to learn how to do that, but I also don't think not having years of experience makes people inherently dangerous. I think it depends on the person. No one who is willing to put in the amount of work necessarily to make a business successful is going to clueless for long.

The clueless folks? Guess what? A business in a box product is probably more work than they're willing to take on. Most people that I know that sell soap started selling pretty early on, mostly to friends. Then they branched out. No business licenses, no insurance. If someone is going to do something stupid, a product like a business in a box isn't going to be the issue. The issue is the person.

LavenderLady, I have known people like your "friend", and they are exhausting to be around, so I sense that the relationship is no great loss to you. It is a shame that she doesn't seem to care at all about her product, her reputation, or the fact that she handed out and probably sold a bad product. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I thought I had given someone a product that could hurt them!

However, I agree with Margo and Robert in that I don't think the "business in a box" is going to make someone who's typically a cautious and rational person think they can just buy it and open the doors for business, and that being said, I doubt it will influence the impulsive throw-caution-to-the-wind type person to learn the ins and outs before selling their first bar. I'm not even sure it would appeal to people who just want to sell to make money, they probably see all the books and tutorials in it as unnecessary and a waste of their profit margin. Why spend the money on a kit when you can just buy the ingredients and look up recipes online for free?

I wasn't going to comment on this subject because of my newbie status on this board, but I have noticed what Robert was talking about with the big guns coming out at the mention of selling or wanting to eventually start a business. At first I also thought it was the threat of competition that initiated it, but if that is the reason why would anyone be helpful to newcomers at all? I think it is also part genuine concern for Doing It The Right Way and having to earn it through struggle and perseverance like people who have been doing it for years. I really believe though, that as with anything else, if someone doesn't have a true passion for what they are doing, the endeavor will not last long, because no matter what great advice and guidance is handed over to them, work is work and lack of common sense and ignorance are usually great equalizers.

Obviously I disagree Robert. And I am quite happy to offer support to anyone wanting to begin a soaping (or any other) business, if and when they have good experience under their belts and a sound business plan. I do not promote beginning a business when you have only made a few batches of soap, don't know what essential oils do, and have to ask questions that you should know the answers to before you pass yourself off as a professional.
The reason that you see a lot of people telling others to back off and they aren't ready is because they often aren't! It has nothing to do with competition and and everything to do with consumer safety, as well as trying to keep our ability to be less regulated. You yourself said that most people you know began selling to their friends and others without insurance and without a business license. Yes, it takes a lot of hard work to keep a business going, but gee, many of these sellers don't care past making a few bucks. When it gets too hard, if it gets too hard, they will just quit and move on to something else. But meanwhile they have sold how many bars of soap and how many lotions? Did they sell safe ones? I personally don't want to find out with any member of my family!

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Remember, it's not just that we weather the storm, but how we dance in the rain.

Tammy

Like I said in the other post, if I thought that another soaper would be my competition, why in the world would I be helping them and offer suggestions? The answer is simple. If they make a good product with the proper amount of knowledge, more people will find out about the wonderful qualities of handmade soap and they will be more open to buy a handmade product.

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

I am with Irena in this. There are many, many soapers and bath and body makers that assist newbies. We wouldn't rework their mistakes and tell them things we know if we didn't want to help.

goodcleanfun; I think many people, if not most, take as many short cuts as they can. And if they believe that they have solid recipes and all the directions for labeling etc.in their "box", then yes, I think they will jump on the chance to fast track their "business" without knowing much about that business. Yes I feel it is dangerous and yes I disagree with those of you who don't. Arguing about it will not change either of our minds, and I don't wish to argue, so I am going to leave this where it is and comment no more. As I said to Ann Marie, I sincerely hope that she is more right on this subject than I am, I just fear she is not.

_________________
Remember, it's not just that we weather the storm, but how we dance in the rain.

Tammy

I think it's natural for us to want to share the love of an art & science, so of course we want people to have the joy we get from doing what we do. So it's natural to help out newbies.

When those newbies go into competition with us, then I think subconsciously the reaction is quite negative. I mean, out of the people I know that sell soap, almost all sell soap online in addition to or exclusively compared to other venues. An older Etsy's seller demographics report says 78% sell on Etsy, 45% at Craft/Art shows, 37% other, 27% Boutique stores, 24% own website, 21% ebay, etc. Overlap is because people sell in multiple channels. The single largest channel is online sales.

All you need to do is look at a graph of # of soap products for sell on Etsy over time to see that the competition from new businesses is serious and real. I thought the soap item for sell graph was in Marla Bosworth's white paper on starting a soap business, but I don't see it there. The graph was non-linear growth. Doing a search for 'soap' on Etsy shows over 100K items for sale just now. It was like 10K items 5 years ago (not sure on the exact number since I don't have the graph in front of me), but you get the idea. I've been reading an average of 2 craft business books a week, mostly from the library, so it may have been in one of those. If I see it again, I'll post it.

Why does a newbie business person need a solid business plan as was mentioned in a post? If they're safe, who cares if they go out of business in 2 days? I don't.

I think we need to own up to the fact that this is a BUSINESS for many of us, and we have reactions which are valid when a new competitor shows up in the market.

In chatting with some of the other business newbies privately, this is a common experience. Just look at the Business in a Box and the reactions. It's been fascinating as a newbie to watch.

I'd love to see a single post that shows a positive reaction to someone declaring that they are going to go into the soap business. I haven't seen one. It would be interesting to do some searching to see if there are any on any of the soap forums. Maybe later tonight I'll do some poking around.

Competition is why I won't give out my recipes, but not why I don't think newbies shouldn't sell. Plain and simple, I don't really care if you have a solid business plan, what I care about is that you know what you are doing! It is not an subconscious thing against competition, it is a very conscious thing against people conducting business when they shouldn't. These people's mistakes impact my business and may hurt my family or friends! Each time someone thinks that they know what they are doing just because they made 5 "good" batches of soap, or a lotion that they "didn't see anything wrong with" and sells it, they increase the likelihood of the government making it more difficult, if not impossible, for me to conduct my cottage business.
This is what I care about. It is in my nature and behooves my business to mentor newbies. Finding the fine line to give enough info to ensure safety, but not too much to encourage a "drive by" business is always the key.

Okay, now I am done, stepping off the soap box and really, truly done with the comments.

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Remember, it's not just that we weather the storm, but how we dance in the rain.

Tammy

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

[/quote] I know you are done with comments, but I just wanted to say that I didn't intend to come off as argumentative, and if I did I apologize. I simply find this an interesting topic of conversation and I enjoy reading viewpoints from both sides.[/quote]

No need to apologize at all. You did not come off as argumentative and I certainly don't think that everyone has to agree with me. I am passionate about this subject though, and I do want my position and comments understood, so if I don't step off, I could keep "yah butting" for pages! That is all I meant by "being done". Then, as you see, I wasn't truly done yet!
Anyway, no worries and no reason for an apology! There is nothing wrong with an open discussion of varying opinions. I find it interesting as well, and sometimes I even learn something new!

_________________
Remember, it's not just that we weather the storm, but how we dance in the rain.

Tammy