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Teach Soap • View topic - How much of the *good* stuff do you really need?

Teach Soap

Soap Making Recipes, Tips and Tutorials
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:20 am 
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Location: Alberta
So I have some perhaps controversial questions about ingredient ratios in soap :twisted: ...

I notice a lot of soapers keep their recipes fairly basic, say 3-5 oils/butters total. Personally, I think that's a smart move for a lot of reasons. But what I want to know is this:

1) How MUCH of the exotic/healing/expensive(!) stuff do you REALLY need in a soap that's superfatted 5-7% to make an appreciable difference in the user experience?

2) If you had to pick, what's more important in making a moisturizing bar of soap: ingredient selection/ratios or superfat % ? My understanding is that even CO will moisturize like crazy if you superfat enough...

3) While shea is perhaps special because it has a high level of unsaponifiables, would say saponified cocoa butter clean *differently* than saponified CO? What I'm getting at I guess is this: once an oil/butter is saponified, do they still retain different/special properties? Or is "soap" just "soap"? LOL. I'd think NO because each saponified oil might clean in a slightly different manner (strength of cleaning properties for e.g.), but putting it out there anyway because I'm just curious.

4) I made a no-palm soap with 10% shea at 5% superfat. It's cured about 5 weeks. My opinion of it: blah. No appreciable difference using that much shea at all. Thoughts?

5) A lot of folks don't use palm due to sustainability concerns. Or some find it difficult to source. I totally understand this. But if you do choose to use it, doesn't it make a really nice bar? The bars I've used it in at high % (say 25+%) just seem more mild/easier on the skin. No yucky dry feeling on the hands after. Yet it seems that PO is actually not a fave in soaping ... curious why. Color? Texture (it is a little slippery)? Or is it just useless? LOL.

Those are my soap curiosities of late! :)

Karri

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:32 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:04 am
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I'm a newbie to soap so I'm not going to try to answer your questions. In fact, I've been wondering the same thing. As far as finding plain palm oil locally, some high end supermarkets like Whole Foods carry palm oil instead of Crisco. The old hippie type co-ops carry straigt palm also. Palm oil is one of the two main ingredients in name brand Crisco.

What do you mean by "sustainability" in question #5? Do you mean sustainability as in having a reliable source or sustainability as in it being bad for the environment because of processing or unfair trade practices or something? I haven't heard anything about that so I'm curious.

Barbara


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:48 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:04 am 
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I have only used palm once or twice in soap and found no discernible difference. I use mango butter (as I can no longer use shea) along with my basic oils and superfat around 7%. Since there is no way to know which oils or butters actually end up as your superfat (unless you HP), I find if you add any exotic oils or butters, they have more of a label appeal then anything else.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:27 am 
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Location: Jefferson City, TN
I use lard in place of palm in almost all of my soaps and, nope, can't tell a difference. My all veggie soaps are olive (or olive & soybean), coconut and castor. That's it. My lard soap is olive (and/or soybean), coconut, lard & castor. I superfat at 7%. I've added shea, cocoa butter and avocado oils to various soaps and can't really tell any difference between them, so I'm saving those for solid lotion bars. Hope that helps! :D

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:17 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:04 am
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I did a search on sustainable palm oil. Very interesting. The Spectrum Organic Palm Oil I buy is not certified, but apparently meeting the certification standards doesn't necessarily mean the product was obtained in a sustainable way. Perhaps I will write to the company and ask about that.

Barbara


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:02 pm 
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I've been buying my PO from Brambleberry (though I may have to switch due to extremely high shipping costs - not their fault). But they sent me some documentation which I believe you can also find on the RSPO site. The criteria for membership actually does seem pretty strict. I'm still in the process of reviewing it. We must remember that it's not a black and white issue. (i.e. take a look at North America's history and how much land we farm ... that land wasn't always farm land! An ecological disaster but it's here now so we accept --and defend-- it). All food for thought and I certainly don't have all the answers by any stretch. But my husband is an environmental scientist so I like to pick his brain about this stuff. He also works with the oil and gas industry, so I hear both sides usually which is cool.

... Ok that was a tangent! LOL.

Karri

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:09 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:39 pm 

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I have been making the memememe Luxary bar recipe that is given at the beginning of this forum and I love it. I add a little bentonite clay for slip. Previous to that I made the Shea Butter bar at the beginning of this forum. I think I feel a creamier lather in the luxary bar. Since most of my soap is for family and friends I don't mind adding some nicer ingredients.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:15 pm 
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Karri,
Try a 100% coconut with 20% superfat and see how you like it.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:12 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:56 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:14 pm 

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:33 pm 
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@FarmScapeGoods Thanks! I do think I'm going to start superfatting higher than 5% on a regular basis because it's just not enough moisture for me. And to my mind, why use handmade soap if it's not extra lovely to your skin? (Regardless of which oils/butters actually make it lovely! Hehe.)

This discussion around label appeal is fascinating to me, probably because of my marketing/copywriting background. Giving this much thought...

Curious: how do the lard bars feel different to you vs the PO based ones? Just harsher cleansing? I don't use lard but always curious about this.

Karri

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:40 pm 
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I would like to bet that you wouldn't be able to tell a difference between lard based soap versus all vegie soap if both were superfatted at the same % and that was the only difference. I normally go for about 7% superfat and I live in the desert.

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