Teach Soap

I've had a request for an anti-bug bite soap for dogs. The bugs in question are black flies.

I'm thinking about using citronella, eucalyptus, spearmint, and some kind of citrus. Since this is for dogs, am I safe with the one ounce per pound ratio?

I should also say that these are very large dogs (English mastiffs) if that makes any difference.

I just got some cute dog bone molds (they say WOOF in capital letters across the bone) so I'm anxious to try this.

I'm also looking to maybe make a leave-in spray conditioner with those same EOs to back up the soap.

Thanks for the help.

Anita

Anita, I would not use eucalyptus or peppermint on the dogs at all (and if you did, .4 would be too much). Citronella and other bug repelling eo's need to be used in moderation, and 1% is not in moderation. The total eo's should be at .7 ppo or less, .5 being a better target. The stronger Eo's need to be a lot less, as in no more than .4 ppo, and .2 is likely a better number.
The fact that the breed is large is better and less dangerous than applying to a yorkie, but still, the numbers I gave will be plenty strong enough for any breed. They do not have the ability to process the eo's as humans do, although they can use some of them, they still can be toxic if you use too much or the wrong ones. You will want to make sure of any potential side effects of any EO's that you plan to use, as the dog will absorb them through the skin and may be affected by them. There are several sites that offer recipes and usage amounts for the various bug repelling eo's, and your Veterinarian may also be a good source of information for you. Some are, some are not. Additionally, the SPCA has a section of EO's on their web site.

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Tammy

Here is a site that can give you some ideas on how to use essential oils on a dog. http://aromatherapy.bellevuemassagether ... -oils.html

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Another place to check is with Animals talk naturally, Dr. Kim Bloomer. She is a naturopath that specializes in holistic Veterinary care. I know she is on twitter and has a website. She was on a blogtalk radio for an animal show interview once and they discussed Bach flowers and essential oil treatments. She has answered questions for me before, so I am sure she would help you as well!

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Tammy

I use neem oil in my dog shampoo bar. It helps soothe the skin and repels insects.

Hi Anita I am an aromatherpist and totally agree with the advice given here, you need to really know what you are doing, search and investigate well before you attempt to use EO's in dogs, animals do not posses same physiology as us, there has not been much research or trials on the effects of EO's in animals. Some EO's can be toxic to pets you must be careful, even if an EO is a safe one you must be cautions with the amounts used, some dogs are much smaller than a child. I'm a bit concerned about the information given on the website suggested here, I do not agree with some of the EO's recommended such as clary sage, geranium & valerian. I have used tiny amounts of lavender, tea tree & Ylang Ylang on my dogs shampoo with no problems, remember dogs have a highly developed sense of smell therefore as LavenderLady says the amounts of stronger oils such as peppermint need to be reduced. I wouldn't mix more than 2 EO's, otherwise it might be too much for their system to deal with. Find out as much as you can and then proceed with your project. Best of luck

I agree with Peppermint, I would not use valerian or clary sage on a dog, as they have sedative properties, but I am not sure why geranium would be bad, so that one I would investigate a bit more. I do use 4 different EO's in a few of my dog grooming products, but I keep the overall amount very low. Really, all you need for bug protection is some citronella and lemon grass in a carrier oil and that rubbed onto their coat, not into the skin. That, along with a lavender spritzer to the dog bed, keeps bugs away quite nicely. Since you want to make a soap though, I really would suggest a neem soap as LSG says. There are many recipes for dog shampoo on the net which utilize neem and it is good for humans and dogs alike, so anyone can use the bone bars!

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Remember, it's not just that we weather the storm, but how we dance in the rain.

Tammy

Just wanted to add, if you're selling insect repelling soap/shampoos for pets, you have to get them regulated by the EPA. If you're in America that is.

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Tammy geranium has a high content of geraniol a constituent that has been identified by clinical studies to cause contact dermatitis in some cases. The problem is that geraniol when exposed to air rapidly oxidizes forming a highly allergenic compound, since dog's skins are very sensitive my opinion is that it should be avoided. Also geranium has some effect on hormones as well as being highly astringent can cause blood vessels to constrict which is beneficial in some cases. Aromatherapy is a healing art that is very understudied and very often left to the interpretation of who ever reads information that is available all over the place and everyone thinks that it is ok to use EO's for what ever condition on children, elderly, pets etc if that is what they've read. EO's are potent and can be very toxic capable of causing harm if not used correctly, in some countries in Europe medical aromatherapy is practiced and only doctors are allowed to prescribe them. I am not trying to discourage here but rather stress the importance of being careful and safe and always make sure your sources of info are reputable

Well, nothing like trying to get some information to make oneself even more confused!

I'm not sure where everyone got the notion that I was planning to use peppermint EO - don't really like the stuff. My original post says spearmint.

I have looked at enough websites on EOs and animals that I have a splitting headache. Unfortunately, the majority of the sites address aromatherapy rather than preventing insect bites.

I keep coming across the same few EOs, though - cedarwood, eucalyptus, something called lemon eucalyptus (or eucalyptus lemon, depending on who you ask).

LavenderLady, I don't think I was clear that the amount of EOs I was considering would have an been an ounce per pound of the total blend, certainly not an ounce per pound of each individual EO. And as far as the eucalyptus, the friend that requested this had used some type of spray/shampoo for dogs that contained it.

Peppermint, the great thing about some of those sites is that too many of them contradict each other. I'm a bit wary of tea tree, as I've spoken to people whose dogs suddently developed a skin problem after prolonged use of a product containing tea tree oil.

WinterMoon, do you have any links to websites with the EPA information on it?

I'm acquainted with a lot of folks who use natural products on their dogs. I may ask around and see if any of those folks have any suggestions about EOs to use, or to avoid.

Thanks, everyone, for all your help. I'll soldier onward.

Anita

Here is a link for neem oil and dog use. I think that neem has a lot of what you are looking for.
http://www.discoverneem.com/neem-oil-for-dogs.html If the scent is too strong for you, its cousin, Karanja oil, also possess much of neem's same properties without the smell.

I am sorry, I did read spearmint, and meant to write spearmint, although I said peppermint. Though I actually wouldnt use either one! lol
And I am Sorry if I misunderstood you. I was concerned, as peppermint was, that you may not understand all the implications of using EO's. Too often people don't. I am a RN and an aromatherapist, as well as a long time herbalist, so I do know and appreciate herbal remedies for people and dogs, and I do make products for my dogs, as well as sell some too. Everyone has different ideas about their studies and what is best, but I would not ever use eucalyptus on my dogs, so I don't recommend it for others either. You will have to make your eyes cross some more, pop a bit of white birch bark, and read some more to decide what you feel is best. I wish you much luck in this endeavor!

Peppermint, I certainly agree with you about the use of Eo's, and am often the first person to preach about education when it comes to using them. I appreciate your answer about the geranium, I couldn't think why it may be bad for dogs, but rechecking information is never a bad idea in any case.

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Remember, it's not just that we weather the storm, but how we dance in the rain.

Tammy

Anita sorry for all the preaching but rejoice after all your searching & hard work you will be an expert in the field then we will come to you for advice

Tammy thanks for sharing information here I am always open to learn from others and their experiences, I am also a herbalist and feel happy to have you in this forum sharing your knowledge. I have learnt a few things from this post... Thank you

Here's the link about pesticides, using EO's or other naturally derived ingredients would actually are considered biopesticides.
http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/

Here's about the regulation of biopesticides
http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/biopesticides/

Also, another big thing with soap for getting rid of fleas and eo's, eo's are incredibly dangerous for cats, even in small amounts. So, if someone washes their cat with dog flea soap and that cat licks themselves (because that's what they do) there is a large chance it could kill them. Or if someone has a dog and cat and the cat licks the dog.
http://www.holisticat.com/aromatherapy.html
There are about a million other websites warning of the dangers with cats and essential oils.

I'm not trying to say you can't do it, I'm just saying that if you still decided to do it, be careful

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Thanks Peppermint, I feel the same! And thanks WinterMoon for all the links! I do label with cat warnings, and always explain about using aromatherapy around cats. They have to have a place too get to that doesnt have any oil scent in it, as they dont process it the way dogs and people do. Just burning an oil can kill them, so pet owners really need to study up on the things they use, and makers really need to know what they are making for sure.

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Remember, it's not just that we weather the storm, but how we dance in the rain.

Tammy

Oh, preach away, I don't mind. I know when anybody posts questions on a forum like this, it's best to assume ignorance when responding. I'm not an aromatherapist or an herbalist, but I have been making soap for about 15 years. So I do have some knowledge of the EOs.

Part of the problem, to me, anyway, about trying to research something like this is knowing what sources to trust. That's why I like this forum - people can say, well, I've done this, or I have these credentials or such and such experience. Just reading something on a website is no guarantee the information is correct. (Although I HOPE the EPA stuff is correct! )

I did post the question on a couple of the mastiff boards I belong to , so I'll see what those folks have to say. I do know that several of the members use what I guess you'd call natural practices with their animals, so I'm sure they'll throw in the proverbial two cents worth.

LavenderLady, thanks for the info on neem oil. I'll check into that.

WinterMoon, thanks for the EPA links. I'll have to look into those later, both of my mastiffs are in a show this weekend, first one for my boy.

Thanks again for the help.

Anita