Teach Soap

I was looking on Bramble Berry's site at the description for the "Ancient Sedona" fragrance oil I used today, and it had text in red that said, "This fragrance contains phthalates." I don't remember that being there when I ordered it, but it had me concerned - red text doesn't usually mean something good. I googled phthalate and it said they're a health concern, possibly a carcinogen. So I guess I'm trashing the entire loaf. Big disappointment. I looked at the other scents I've used, and most of them say "phthalate free" but some don't say anything. And now I don't know what to do about those when I've given someone the soap - tell them not to use it, or trust that Bramble Berry would have said something if the scents were a problem?

I have used fragrances with phthalates for many years I'm sure. As of right now that evidence is inconclusive. It seems every year there is a uproar about something. One year it was mineral oil. Parabens was next. Go ahead and use the soap. Take any scaremongering with a grain of salt. Do you own research and make your own decision whether or not to use them.
http://www.cdc.gov/biomonitoring/Phthal ... Sheet.html

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

I am a nutritionist and a soapmaker, and I definitely think that phthalates are a problem. They mimic estrogens in the body. Many cases of breast cancer and other types of cancer are estrogen-dependent, meaning that excess estrogens, like those derived from phthalates and parabens, drive abnormal cell growth. Unfortunately, phthalates are ABUNDANT in body care products. Any shampoo, lotion, soap, or cosmetics that have the word "fragrance" listed in the ingredients likely contain phthalates.

I understand about not wanting to throw the batch of soap out. Chances are your friends are already getting tons of phthalates in their personal care products and the extra amount they get in your soap is not going to matter much, so maybe you want to go ahead and use it. But perhaps the best approach would be to educate your loved ones about phthalates and teach them how they can avoid them. One way is for them to use the soap that you make, because in that case you will know whether or not the fragrance you added contains phthalates. : ) One note of caution - if it were me I would not give the soap to any person who has cancer, especially breast cancer. That's would just be my personal choice.

I agree with soapiscience- they are a concern, but don't throw out the loaf. I'm actually really glad that BB is updating their scent descriptions to include this information. I have certain standards in the soaps that I sell- the entire premise of my shop is that I sell more "natural" products. But I don't want to ONLY use EO's, because, well, that's no fun! I want to have a variety- unscented soaps for the super sensitive, EO soaps for the more natural minded, and scented soaps that are otherwise high quality and natural for people who are less sensitive but still concientious. But there are certain things I WILL NOT use or sell- parabens, pthalates, and sulfates (I did try making bubble bath cookies with SLSA, but I didn't like the results and that stuff isn't fun to work with- I didn't wear a mask when I mixed them, and the little bit that went airborn made my mouth taste like laundry detergent for like 3 days). And there are others, but those are the big 3. Pthalates and parabens have indeed been proven to imitate estrogen in our bodies, which can cause a myriad of problems after long term sustained use- in men this causes excess breast tissue growth and in women this increases the likelihood of breast and ovarian cancer. But this is with long, sustained use (which, unfortunately, many people who don't care about have- between body care, home and room sprays, candles, and pretty much most conventional scented products, most people are exposed 24/7). One batch of soap isn't going to be a big deal for people who are careful. And for people who are already exposed, one batch of soap isn't going to add that much.

But now you know, so you can be careful in the future and reduce your exposure. Just keep in mind that ANYTHING scented can have pthalates in it, AND they don't have to be listed on the ingredient list. Anything that lists "fragrance" as an ingredient can have pthalates in it. So now that you know and you obviously care enough to consider throwing out an entire batch of soap, you can just try to use pthalate free scents. Many of the scents on BB are listed as pthalate free now. It looks like they might not be done changing the descriptions yet, some don't say one way or the other, but hopefully this means they're working on changing ALL the descriptions.

I asked my dad about this (he is a Doctor with ~40 years of experience) and he believes it is this years' "cancer threat". Like coke was a couple years ago, and aspartame a couple years before that. Until there are a few official studies with actual proof of carcinogenicity I'll follow his train of thought. I've looked into the studies in depth, and he is correct, there are no definitive studies. There are a few independent studies that use a lot of statistical data, but nothing from reliable sources.

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~~Heather~~
Mad [soaping] Scientist

Well, from my point of view, I threw out the loaf shortly after it hardened enough to come out of the mold. There might not be definitive proof that phthalates are harmful, but could I really give this soap to my friends and say, "Hey, this *might* cause cancer, but it's not certain yet"? No, I couldn't. So I tossed it. Is my little loaf of soap just noise in the grand scheme of things? Yes. But it was not something I was comfortable with.

I do love that Bramble Berry has been listing this on their site. It makes me more comfortable dealing with them in general. And I got a response back from a company representative about the one fragrance I'd looked up that didn't have information on the subject. She said it is, indeed, phthalate-free, which made me feel better about it.

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

I understand, and there are things I would feel the same about. But given how new I am at this, and how I felt reading the information, it was not something *I* could do. I know people who think sugar is poison (literally poison) and who are probably horrified that I let my children eat candy. This was entirely about what I was comfortable with.

I don't blame you at all. And a lot of those people are siting actually HAVE been proven to cause problems. Even the lavender thing was credible, but you had to take it in context (and a lot of people didn't and freaked out needlessly- the lesson to be learned from that study was that lotion with absorption aids and lavender caused breast tissue growth in boys... not that lavender itself did). And for what it's worth "doctor of 40 years" means nothing to me credibility wise. Doctors are fantastic at treating sick people but do very little actual studying on keeping healthy people healthy. Meanwhile our health (as a society) is going downhill fast- more heart disease, more cancer, more obesity, more diabetes, and the only reason we're not dying younger is because we are being kept alive thanks to the drug companies (and paying for it). So yeah, I'm going to take it seriously when there is even the slightest suggestion that some NEW substance (new meaning developed over the past 100 years) causes problems, and I'm going to avoid it. If you don't want to, fine.

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~~Heather~~
Mad [soaping] Scientist

Well I don't think this is the arena for this discussion

QUOTE "Meanwhile our health (as a society) is going downhill fast- more heart disease, more cancer, more obesity, more diabetes, and the only reason we're not dying younger is because we are being kept alive thanks to the drug companies"

These problems are due to the FDA, EPA and Monsanto running our country not the doctors who are doing what they can. These problems begin at the beginning with what is coming out of the ground and in our food, air and water. Doctors are attempting to help period.


That being said. Here is an example for you a new shampoo on the market I recently purchased EverPure sulfate free shampoo. Guess what it is loaded with plenty of other hazards some new and some old like SLS is the 4th item on the ingredients list.

MSG isn't labeled on all food there are 35 industry names for MSG other than MSG.

SOLUTION use only phthalate free fragrance there is a load of it out there. Be prepared for next years new boogie man ingredient.

ALL thinks great and small all things in moderation.

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~bytheSEAsoap~ Mella bythesea, bythesea, bythebeautiful sea

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